How to Identify and Deal With Toxic People in Hiring

The Role of Company Culture in Hiring A-Players

Sean: Now, what does the hiring process for A-players look like? Is it different from hiring anyone else? And how do these A-players stand out, usually during the hiring process?

Ugis: So I mean, some of the things I look at even happened before they apply or I respond to them. And these days for myself and how I hire, I only reach out to people because I know that’s the best talent. But at the same time, it’s the kind of companies I’m working with, mostly working with seven to eight figure businesses, and they can usually afford these really high-caliber people. But you know, if you’re advertising in a job board still, once the application comes in, there are a few things you want to check.

Ugis: And personally, for myself, I just avoid people with unstable job records. You know, maybe I’m definitely in the position of strength where I’m hiring for really good companies. And I can afford to do that because I’m definitely missing good candidates that way. It doesn’t – If you don’t have a stable track record, it doesn’t mean you can’t do the work. But it is a predictor.

Ugis: Most people who don’t have these stable job histories, they will not be the best workers for you, so that’s one thing I definitely look at. Once they apply, I don’t know if the process itself is anything special. You typically give them a screening call. You try to not take too much time. You give them a quick test assignment to see that they can actually do the work that you want them to do.

Ugis: Yeah. If we’re talking about predictors and how to know that someone is going to be good in the role, you ask them to do a little bit of the work. And if the returns are good, this person can probably do the work. If what they return is bad, you know, there’s probably no way they’re going to improve it. It’s harsh, but it’s proven to be true over time.

Ugis: And then I usually do another interview and I have that one maybe is a little special. But outside of that, the kind of basic steps you want to go through is the same for whatever job you’re hiring. But if you’re going through those steps, you might as well make sure you get an A-player in the end, because if you don’t, it’s just – running a business is hard already, so you might as well do it with the best people. Give yourself the best shot to succeed.

Sean: You mentioned earlier that you look at the track record when it comes to hiring people, but you’re sure that you also missed some good candidates there. Is it a worthy trade-off to do that? And why do you say that you missed some good candidates there if you think that they’re going to the back burner instead of proceeding through the hiring process?

Ugis: So it’s kind of about efficiency because my business focuses on working with clients that have remote teams. So then I have access to a billion people. I don’t have the time to review all of them. And kind of I has to make these decisions where I’m definitely missing someone by doing this. But I just need to manage my workload in a way, you know, I’m cutting people with rough guidelines, and that does mean that I’m missing good talent.

Ugis: At the same time, I have enough talent to choose from to kind of be okay with it. And that’s how I approach it. And especially if you’re reaching out to people, you can select the ones that you really think are going to work out. If someone’s applied, you only have as many applications as you have, so you’re kind of trying to do the best with what you have. Still, even then, I would encourage everyone, you still have ways to improve your talent pool and kind of – get better people and don’t settle for options that are not good, but it’s the best you have.

Sean: You can use your creativity and figure out how to get these better people if you need better people in. So, yeah, that’s why I’m kind of okay with missing someone because there are so many options out there.

Sean: Yeah, so it’s like an end mass qualifier for you.

Ugis: Yes, that’s right.

Sean: Got it.

Sean: I’m wondering, you mentioned you have access to a billion people, and that’s because it’s remote work. Where do you usually place your job at? Is it on LinkedIn? What would be some of the best job portals out there?

Ugis: These days I don’t do job ads at all. I just go on LinkedIn and I’m the one who initiates conversation because what usually happens is that at any given time, maybe twenty to twenty-five percent of people are kind of unsatisfied with their job situation. And if I can approach them at that moment, I kind of have the firsthand and I can kind of get them to my opportunity, and the one I want them working on.

Ugis: If they made it all the way to the job board they’re choosing between me and 99 other people. So then my odds of getting this person are quite low, and it is true that the best candidates are usually not looking actively. They’ve kind of someone else has snatched them before. So that’s why I’ve kind of moved away from using job boards at all.

Ugis: But when I was using job boards, my go-to site was ‘WeWorkremotely.’ It secured a lot of applications. These days, almost every company working remotely, the job board is kind of over flooded with everyone advertising there, so I stepped away from it. Maybe last summer. So yeah, I don’t have good tips on my job boards anymore.

Sean: No worries. I really love the fact that you mentioned you would approach people in the best ones are really the ones that were snatched before. Now I’m wondering, you mentioned that twenty-five percent are not that happy with their work and would be willing to continue on a conversation with you. How long does it take for you to actually close that position with those kinds of people?

Ugis: Yeah. So my promise to my clients is that we’ll find an A-player six weeks or less, and how I do it is I reach out to about 50 people every week and I see the response. And if the response is good, you know, I learn more about them. So you see what they’re interested in. Usually, it doesn’t happen on the first round, but it gives me feedback that, ‘okay, this is a ‘reasonable approach you can tweak, but continue this way. Sometimes the feedback comes back that’s ‘okay, salary is not good.’ Or, you know, ‘we’re not interested.’ I’m approaching the wrong kind of people. And then the next week, kind of, ‘okay, this is what didn’t work. Let’s try something new.’ So then the next week I’m approaching 50 people again, and then I’m learning from them again. And it’s kind of this process where you get better every time.

Ugis: So that’s kind of how I make sure that’s that I’ll be able to achieve this goal of finding someone in six weeks. But from the moment that a good candidate comes in, especially if you’re hiring for yourself, it shouldn’t take too long. You should get on a screening call within two days or so. They should complete their test assignments definitely by the next weekend. And then if you have a follow-up interview that also shouldn’t take more than two or three days to schedule. So, within two weeks, at most, you can easily kind of push the candidate through your funnel. You can take longer. Many companies do, but I think they’re missing out on great candidates because someone else snatches them up before them.

Sean: Six weeks or less. That’s really impressive. And in those six weeks when that person would, of course, tender their resignation and they’d need to do it in like 30 days, is that included in the six weeks?

Ugis: That’s not included. So but we have someone locked in within those six weeks and usually whatever the country’s job market culture is, where it’s two-week notice, a 30-day notice, that’s how it usually is. But six weeks is the period where we kind of lock someone in and have them, for sure, joining the team.

Sean: Got it. And curious, do you have further experience working with a client after this new A-player has been onboarded?

Ugis: Oh, for sure. And so what’s happening now, we’re also chatting earlier. These days, I wake up at like five and I work until, you know, evening time, sometimes at six, sometimes it’s eight. And the reason is that I’m hiring for my clients and we hire positions successfully. They’re so excited that they say, ‘okay, let’s do, you know another position or another to – here’s my friend that that wants to hire.” So now I’m kind of swamped with requests from different people. And of course, I haven’t been doing this for a really long time, this specific agency. But I have a few clients from day one and they’ve hired many positions through me, and they’re still satisfied with kind of the first hires we made together. So the success rate of the process, if you do it right, can be really high. You just have to make sure you’re doing it right.

Sean: And what would be some of your best tips? And I’m not sure if you’re going to be monitoring the A-player all the way, but a lot of companies also suffer from attrition. And I’m wondering if you hire an A-player, how do you best keep an A-player in the team?

Ugis: I can’t say it’s necessarily my specialty, but at the same time, I’ve been a business owner and that’s kind of a really important topic. You know, it’s again, everyone knows the things that should be done. It’s kind of, you know, if you’ve been on LinkedIn for five minutes, someone’s blasting in your face. This is how you make a great culture and they’re not wrong. The problem is that it’s just not easy to do.

Ugis: So you have to be kind of – your company culture and making sure it’s really, really good. I mean, some of the things, some of the practicalities, I think the listeners will have heard them before, but you know, I’d like to provide structure, kind of make sure I’d check in on people regularly, I listen to their feedback. They always know their goals. Another thing that’s really important to me and many of these A-player is a meritocracy. Or, you know, a fancy word for saying, if you deliver results, you move up in the company, you get more responsibilities. No toxicity. You know, it’s someone’s rude or anything like that. You just don’t allow it, that’s not okay.

Ugis: People, especially big trend these days is flexibility, so let people schedule their own time to work. You still want them to do full-time work, and most people are fine with that if you’re hiring full-time, of course. But yeah, if you’re allowed them to design their own schedule, even their own way of working kind of, the best people really enjoyed and they appreciate it, and that’s what they’re looking for. And yeah, if you have some sort of fun elements and sort of company culture, or some sort of events online, in person, that’s also a bonus.