Fight Racism: Support #StopAsianHate Movement

Fight Racism: Support #StopAsianHate Movement

Sean: Hey, Dave. Just want to say you’re a modern-day hero to a lot of people.

Dave: I’m not a hero. I’m just someone that’s trying to give back in a really small way. And it’s really one of the prongs of my efforts around helping the community, particularly the Asian-American community. I would say, you know, we can talk more about it, but there are really three things I’m really focused on. One is helping Asians get more economic power. And unfortunately, not all of us will be Jerry Yang or Eric Yuan of Zoom. Most of us will work in companies, and most of us will need to figure out how to rise the corporate ladder. And so this book is really my gift to people trying to better themselves economically by rising the corporate ladder.

Dave: The second major area of focus for me is really around policy and politics, but from a new standpoint. So I’m the vice-chairman of one of the leading Asian-American news sites in the U.S. called Asia AM News, ASAMNew.com. And we’re a volunteer network. We’re nonprofit, but we want to keep reporting stories that are important to the Asian community. And if you have been tracking, for instance, #StopAsianHate before, some of the more tragic events with Michelle Go and Christina Euna Lee, before those events, the mainstream news had actually stopped really reporting on Asian hate crimes. And I think there was a general perception among non-Asians that the Asian hate crimes have subsided. And in fact, that’s not true at all. In fact, they’ve actually gotten worse. And we were one of the few news outlets that continue to report on it. So it just illustrates to me that we need a source of news for our community that will continue to report on the news that’s important to us when all the other mass news outlets have gone away. So that’s kind of the second major focus of mine.

Dave: And then the third is entertainment. So I’m a big believer that we need to get more Asian faces and more Asian voices in the media. Otherwise, particularly in America, we will continue to be viewed as the other, will continue to be viewed as a foreigner. And so I’ve been working with media production companies that are primarily founded by Asian-Americans. I’ve helped finance them. I’ve helped advise them as well as I just started a new company called Reel 8 – Reel8.com where we’ve effectively built an NFT marketplace for Asian filmmakers to help Asian filmmakers further monetize their films. So that just kind of gives you a more holistic sense of the things that I’m focused on. And you can get a sense of the commonality is that I’m trying to help the Asian community, and that’s a big focus of mine, not the least of which is because I have two boys and I want to make the world a little bit better for them when they become adults and grow older.

Sean: For sure. For sure. And by the way, thank you so much for doing the work for me. I have two boys as well and I’ll just ask them to read your book when they grow up. But I’ll get a copy for sure. I want to read it. I’m very interested in it. And I’m wondering from the time that you resigned and you turned over, did you have an idea about what businesses you wanted to start? How did that happen?

Dave: Yeah, so each one is a little different and I’ll try to do it as quickly as possible. So I started as a management business largely because I wanted to make sure that I managed my own money and also generate a decent amount of return. And we were actually able to recruit other wealthy families that wanted the benefit of our investment track record – investment knowledge. So the asset management business I started was really somewhat self-serving to preserve my own capital. I didn’t want somebody else managing my money.

Dave: I started in the media production company because I wanted to back Asian-American filmmakers, and so I would say that it’s largely driven by more of a social mission, but it’s actually become very profitable, and it’s actually been a pretty good business.

Dave: I started the merchant banking company because the merchant banking company is effectively what I was doing as an investment banker. But instead of getting paid cash fees, I was doing it in the form of investment opportunities and also advisory stock. And the merchant banking business I started really came from when I left my firm, I sent a mass email to all my clients, all my relationships and said, ‘Hey, I just want all of you to know that I’m retiring from Jefferies, the firm that I worked at. And I’m not sure what exactly I’m going to do, but I’m going to do something entrepreneurial.’ And I got a ton of emails back from clients who might say, Hey, look, if you ever want a job or if you ever start another firm, like, I’d love for you to work for us or work with us, and we’ll hire you in a minute.

Dave: And so the merchant bank actually came from satisfying demand that I saw from my existing client base who said, hey, if you’re starting your own firm, like, we’ll hire you. And that’s actually worked out really well. I’ve. You’ve been very selective. In nine years I’ve only done about 12 deals where I’ve invested and also joined those companies, either as a chairman, vice-chairman or board member. And of those 12 – four of them have reached multi-billion dollar valuations. So very successful. Only one was a write-off and the rest are in the multi-hundred million dollar value. So I’ve been very pleased with the success of the merchant bank.

Dave: And then on the technology side, a tech company that I started, it was really about fulfilling a market need. And I do a lot of work in technology. And what I always advocate entrepreneurs are investigating, Hey, should I start a company in technology or whatnot is really trying to define the market need because it goes back to an old adage that actually was created and popularized by Steve Jobs of Apple, which is like, don’t use technology to create a product but actually do it the other way. Like I think a lot of technology companies, see some really cool tech and think, Oh, this is really cool tech, let’s create a product out of it. And I think what ends up happening is that you end up creating products that the market doesn’t want. Rather, what you should do is think about what is the problem trying to solve and then work backward. What is the minimum amount of technology I need in order to deliver that user experience or that product that I want?

Dave: And so the technology company that I co-founded was really related to that thesis, which was we felt we saw a need in the market and we said, ‘Hey, let’s create a product and a user experience, and let’s create the technology required to do that.’ And my most recent company, Reel 8, is really like that too. I saw a need for Asian-American filmmakers to raise money for their next project, and even in 2022, I saw that they were having challenges in raising capital and getting the studios to pay attention. But then I also saw the rise of NFT communities or crypto communities that were actually supporting artists. And so I saw, hey, if you put the two together where we use the technology that’s available through the blockchain and through the creation of communities, we can actually help solve some of these problems that filmmakers of color have, particularly Asian filmmakers have in raising money and getting distribution for their work. And so that ultimately led to me deciding to co-found Reel8 because I saw the opportunity and the use of technology to solve that problem.

Sean: That’s amazing.

Sean: I want to rewind a little bit and ask you some questions about breaking through that bamboo ceiling. So we’ve learned a ton. And I love the fact that when you were about to resign, you emailed your clients. That was a fantastic email, very well done. And I – it’s unbelievable how many of them actually reached out to you and wanted to hire you. That speaks about how they saw you as someone they were dealing with while you were working in the company that you were employed. So how did you do that?

Sean: How did you get that much rapport and such quality in terms of how they know you? And I’m sure that all ties up to some of the principles that you have in the book. So I’d like for you to take us with that on that journey.

Dave: Yeah, I would say that it’s not simple, but I think a big part of it is really mastering how to build relationships with people so that they don’t feel that they’re just a fee. They don’t feel like it’s just a transactional event, but they really feel like, Hey, this guy or gal really cares about my company or about me and wants to help us. And I would say that my whole career is actually built on that, is built on developing relationships and doing some of the things that are actually really simple, but people really screw up like.

Dave: So for instance, just listening, you know, people are terrible at listening, I’ve found. And I’ve been doing this for over 30 years, and I will tell you that most of the time you can tell if people really care about what you have to say because we actually learn this from our parents. We learn at a very instinctual level what genuine affection and genuinely listening looks like, right? Because you go back, if you’ve had decent parents, you know what it feels like, when someone actually cares about what you have to say. And I will tell you because we’re all trained that way. We also know generally when someone doesn’t really care what we have to say, whether someone is texting or looking at something else when they should be listening to us or they’re thinking more about their golf game than some presentation you’re giving.

Dave: And so I always made sure that if I was ever in the presence of a client like they were the whole world like nothing else mattered, and that they had my undivided attention. Okay, the second thing is building relationships, which I think a lot of people don’t really appreciate, is that. We are all really pressed for time. Time is the one resource that we all don’t have enough of. And so I have this thing I call and actually termed it in my book. I have this thing that I focus on, which is the return on time invested, or ROTI. And I tell young people that the way that you can make the most positive impression with your colleagues, with your boss, with your clients, is always thinking about the ROTI of the interaction. And put it very simply. After Sean and I interact today, what will Sean say to himself after this conversation? Wow, that was a really good use of one hour. Like, you know, I learned a lot from that guy, and I want to meet him again. I want to talk to him again. Or will he say, like, man, I wish I could get that hour back? I don’t know what I’m going to do with this footage. Like, maybe we’ll just ditch it. Maybe he won’t even notice that we’ll never broadcast it. Right. And I know you laugh, but I think a lot of people are not mindful of that. They’re not respectful of other people’s time. And so for me, I was always highly respectful of people’s time. Like, I would not only listen, but I would also make sure that they felt that meeting me was a good use of time.

Dave: And so with potential clients, it’s actually not that complicated. What you want them to feel is that, Oh, this guy really knows my space, he really knows my company, and he’s got some juicy information that will actually help me with my business. So I would always make sure if I was ever interacting with a client or a prospect, I would always have at least a handful of really juicy information, you know, gossip. I heard about competition or, you know, some valuable information that they weren’t necessarily privy to about how companies are valued in their particular space. Such that after our interaction, they would say, like, that was a really good use of time. I’m going to spend more time with this guy because like, this guy is making it worth my while and therefore my ROTI is really high.

Dave: And so I just mastered a lifetime of doing this and I continue to do this throughout my life like, you know, whether it be with companies I invest in or people I interact with, I always think about like, okay, I want to make sure that our time together is worth your while. So what am I going to do to make sure that that happens? And I think that’s partly why when I sent that email blast to all my ex-clients that, ‘hey, look, I’m leaving,’ I think that’s why I got a lot of responses like, ‘hey, you know, if you ever need a job or if you’re ever looking for another client or you want to help me, like, let me know.’ I think that’s a big part of the reason why, because I think I understand what it means to develop a meaningful relationship with people. And I think it’s actually not that complicated, but it’s hard to execute. I think a lot of people don’t execute it well, and I think a lot of it comes from practice and really observation and being truthful about like, are you actually doing what you say you think you’re doing?

Sean: Yeah. Couldn’t agree more. Couldn’t agree more.